Topic: Sony PlayStation 4

[MaxxLegend]

Ovvio che scherzo 

Nella maggior parte dei casi la patch e' un processo naturale dello sviluppo di un gioco. I tempi del 2D e del bitmap son finiti da parecchio. I team son cresciuti e la complessità pure. Ci sono troppe variabili durante lo sviluppo per poter trovare tutti i bug in fase di testing.
Chi odia le patch non ha probabilmente ben presente cosa voglia dire sviluppare un videogioco oggi. Ben vengano le patch, i dischi ottici e gli hard disk!

In realtà i giochi di oggi non sono molto più complessi di quelli dell'era 128bit, basti pensare ai vari GTA3, Vice City, etc. La tecnica si è evoluta ma come complessità del mondo di gioco e delle variabili siamo lì.
E le patch non c'erano, c'era testing serio.

[Berto1412]

Ragazzi domandina.
Ho scaricato la Terza stagione di The Walking Dead della Telltale. Primo episodio tutto ok,scarico il secondo episodio e comincio a giocare. Doppiaggio sfalsato,voci che spariscono ma soprattutto scatti a ripetizione. C'è la possibilità che riscaricando di nuovo tutto si possa sistemare un po' la cosa?

Nessuno?

[Freshlem]

Ovvio che scherzo 

Nella maggior parte dei casi la patch e' un processo naturale dello sviluppo di un gioco. I tempi del 2D e del bitmap son finiti da parecchio. I team son cresciuti e la complessità pure. Ci sono troppe variabili durante lo sviluppo per poter trovare tutti i bug in fase di testing.
Chi odia le patch non ha probabilmente ben presente cosa voglia dire sviluppare un videogioco oggi. Ben vengano le patch, i dischi ottici e gli hard disk!

In realtà i giochi di oggi non sono molto più complessi di quelli dell'era 128bit, basti pensare ai vari GTA3, Vice City, etc. La tecnica si è evoluta ma come complessità del mondo di gioco e delle variabili siamo lì.
E le patch non c'erano, c'era testing serio.

Dici? L'implementazione della fisica mi pare che abbia avuto una sua evoluzione. Cosi come gli algoritmi di AI son diventati più complessi nel tempo.
Tutte cose che a un'occhiata superficiale (non dico la tua, parlo del ragazzino di 12 anni) vengono considerate come "ovvie" ma che in realtà hanno un loro peso nello sviluppo (e testing e QA) del titolo.
Fare software non e' proprio una scienza esatta, basta chiedere a un qualunque ingegnere QA. E la complessità del software non fa nient'altro che aumentare tempi e costi per lo sviluppo e conseguente "polishing".

Di conseguenza, no. Sviluppare un Vice City e un GTA 5 son 2 universi completamente diversi, per quanto le basi siano le stesse.

[MaxxLegend]

...
Di conseguenza, no. Sviluppare un Vice City e un GTA 5 son 2 universi completamente diversi, per quanto le basi siano le stesse.

Si ma vedi, nonostante GTA 5 sia di gran lunga uno dei giochi più complessi e tecnicamente evoluti attualmente, è un gioco incredibilmente "polished" e privo di bug rilevanti.

Quindi la verità è che "si può fare" ma molti non lo fanno per ridurre tempi e costi, prendendo la comoda via delle patch e facendo fare parte del testing all'utenza. Bella merda.

[MaxxLegend]

Questo al netto dei discorsi sulla fisica e sull'AI: la prima è generalmente assegnata a middleware vari, la seconda.. beh.. parliamone.. nel 90% dei casi fa cagare oggi come allora.

[babaz]

Si badi come di patch, GTA 5, ne abbia ricevute in quantità...

In realtà è vero: pochissime sono le uscite che godono del quality test e e del polish di giochi come GTA 5.

Così come è vero che in passato uscivano giochi rotti, a volte in modo orrendo, e così restavano senza possibilità di appello.

L'equilibrio da un senso anche alle patch, perché no?

[Freshlem]

si torna sempre allo stesso punto. I soldi.

Rockstar é sfondata. Grazie al razzo che ci da di testing e QA. E appunto..le patch. Ne han rilasciate pure loro. grazie a dio. il dio della patch e di internet, naturalmente.

[MaxxLegend]

Vabbé ma le patch di GTA5 aggiungevano roba, non è che fixavano bug che rompevano il gioco.
Più che patch erano DLC gratuiti,

[Freshlem]

Vabbé ma le patch di GTA5 aggiungevano roba, non è che fixavano bug che rompevano il gioco.
Più che patch erano DLC gratuiti,

Ne sei sicuro?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Questi i fix dell'ultima patch.

Rockstar Creator Fixes – PS4, Xbox One and PC Only

Fixed an issue that resulted in the starting grid for any created Stunt Race needing to be placed on the ground as opposed to being able to be placed on a raised platform.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the option “Lobby Radio” no longer being present in the Creator.
Fixed an issue that caused different colored props to flicker when placed inside each other.
Fixed an issue that allowed 150 fireworks to be placed near each other which impacted players’ frame rates.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the “drop” functionality in the Creator not working as intended.
Fixed a crash that had a chance to occur when testing a multi-route Race in the Stunt Race Creator.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players getting stuck in the sky after exiting a Heist Mission, entering the Creator, creating a Mission then leaving the Creator.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players getting their camera stuck after spamming the use of triggered snapping and zooming in.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being warped to the city upon attempting to place a Stunt tube prop that was intersecting with the ground.
Fixed an issue that caused the “Cycle Items” option to not work when Stunt Props from the dynamic menu were selected at the time.
Fixed syncing issues with the Bowling Pin and Bowling Ball props in Stunt Races.
Fixed an issue with the Slow Down Prop in Stunt Races that caused vehicles to remain slowed when no longer in contact with the prop.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to place any further props with the error “Maximum (15) speed boost tubes placed”.
Fixed an issue that caused the GTA and Rally Race option to not be present for all eligible Race types (Land, Sea, Air) in the Race Creator.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players getting stuck on a black screen after attempting to test a Stunt Race or a Capture in the Creator.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to change their created Race type.
Fixed an issue that caused players to be sent into a loading screen after cycling through the Actor Relationships menu.
Fixed an issue that caused the Bullpup Shotgun & Hammer to not work as Forced Weapons in Creator.
Fixed an issue that caused Capture objects to no longer be highlighted red & blue.
Fixed an issue that caused snapping to stop working correctly if the player rotates the prop with a different rotation type.
Fixed an issue that caused UI to flicker when snapping some gate props in certain positions.
Fixed an issue that caused the button prompt to delete an object to remain despite choosing to lock it from deletion.
Fixed an issue that caused the camera to stop moving if the player placed snapping props down together quickly.
Fixed an issue that occurred when players placed a prop close to another prop and turned on snapping (with chain snapping). The prop would then connect to the other side of the placed prop.
Fixed an issue that occurred when players used triggered snapping for two props which would then snap those two props together, instead of snapping to the already placed prop.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the chain snapping camera moving in the opposite direction to where the prop is being placed.
Fixed an issue that caused template color / tint to change after testing a Race.
Fixed an issue that caused the “Use Stunt Camera Trigger” option in Creator to have no effect on published Jobs.
Fixed an issue that caused props to snap to the wrong angle.
Fixed frame rate issues that occurred when using wall ride props.
Fixed an issue that resulted in Stunt Props rotating erratically after turning Prop Snapping on and off.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players’ cameras becoming stuck on props when using the map warp.
Fixed an issue that meant players were unable to start the alarm preview for the Public Address System.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the wrong Race categories remaining locked in the Creator.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the button prompt for “Snap (Hold)” being missing.
Fixed an issue that meant loading a published creation in Stunt Race Creator resulted in Race Details > “Race Title” to change to “No translation.” rather than the expected Race name.
Fixed an issue that caused various props to have the incorrect color in the Creator.
Fixed an issue that caused pedestrian vehicles to stop at a certain distance from speed boost props, leading to blocked roads.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the ticker feed message for the Hatchet being blank.
Fixed an issue that caused override rotation to reset the X and Y values to 0.
Fixed an issue with the MTL Dune that resulted in no liveries being applied during Creator tests.
 

General / Miscellaneous – PS4, Xbox One & PC Only

Fixes have been implemented to improve game stability, matchmaking and network performance for GTA Online.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players experiencing frame drops when cycling through items in the accessories section of the Interaction Menu.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to trade in the garage at Unit 124 Popular St.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to see graphics on their T-shirts after a Heist.
Fixed an issue that caused some Stunt Race motorcycle behaviors to persist after returning to Freemode.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players dying too easily upon impact when landing a jump in a created Stunt Race.
Fixed an issue that caused players’ spawn location to change to their new Office despite the player having not bought the accommodation option.
Fixed an issue that resulted in all players being unable to take off in the Buzzard during the Vehicle Deathmatch – Buzz Kill.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being spawned at the start of the Vehicle Deathmatch - Buzz Kill without Buzzards.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being placed into an assisted aim session in a free aim state after joining then leaving a free aim session.
Fixed an issue that caused players to become stuck on a black loading screen after their CEO disconnects from session and they’ve been chosen to pilot their CEO’s helicopter.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to start Special Cargo Missions from their Warehouse laptop.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players from different Organizations that owned different Warehouses to end up in the same Warehouse upon completing a Buy Special Cargo Mission.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players having no drop-offs after getting into the second Cuban plane during Sell Special Cargo Missions.
Fixed an issue that caused pedestrians to spawn without props during Buy Special Cargo Missions that involved assassinations.
Fixed an issue that caused players to not receive a call from their PA saying that a Special Cargo Item is available if the player is active on a Buy Special Cargo Mission.
Fixed an issue in Buy Special Cargo Missions where players were unable to pick up crates.
Fixed an issue in Buy Special Cargo Missions where CEOs wouldn’t retain their wanted level after dying and respawning.
Fixed an issue in the Stunt Race – Plummet where players were able to pass through a checkpoint without collecting it in the Annis RE-7B.
Fixed an issue in the Stunt Race – Plummet where players would be unable to see the next checkpoint if they had respawned just as they had reached the previous one.
Fixed an issue in the Stunt Race - Plummet where no Race UI would be present when starting a Race with 15 players and a spectator.
Fixed an issue that caused players to display as “**invalid**” when they replied to other players’ in-game text messages.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players’ scores to decrement after being killed during an impromptu Vehicle Deathmatch.
Fixed an issue that caused the accessories, cash and ammo sections of the Interaction Menu to become inaccessible after buying a large amount of accessories.
Fixed an issue that caused players to not be offered to widen matchmaking for any Job type if they had previously been On-Call for Stunt Series.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players having no Quick Job functionality after creating a new Character.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players losing the Rollercoaster UI after riding it.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players getting stuck in the sky after accepting an invite to the Stunt Race - City Air while looking for Quick Job > Stunt Series.
Fixed an issue that meant the Declasse Drift Tampa was selectable in the Stunt Race - City Air.
Fixed an issue with the Declasse Drift Tampa where the Crew Emblem would temporarily disappear until the player either left session or entered the mod shop.
Fixed an issue that resulted in Crew Emblems not being applied to the Declasse Drift Tampa.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players experiencing a prolonged wait time when using Quick Job > Stunt Series.
Fixed an issue that caused players to get stuck after attempting to join GTA Online if their spawn location is set to Eclipse Towers Apt. 3 Garage.
Fixed an issue that resulted in Stunt Series lobbies not automatically launching when the countdown timer expires.
Fixed an issue that caused players to be incorrectly placed into a solo session after entering a Stunt Series trigger.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being stuck looking at a Race trigger after being kicked from a lobby that was joined via the Quick Job > On Call option.
Fixed an issue that caused players’ motorcycles to be stuck floating in mid-air.
Fixed an issue that caused players to be invisible after joining a Stunt Series Race via the On-Call option.
Fixed an issue that caused queuing to be instantly cancelled when attempting to go On Call to a Stunt Series via the Freemode trigger while in an Invite-Only session.
Fixed issues with trading in Offices.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players getting stuck when attempting to enter Los Santos Customs during the Online Tutorial.
Fixed several map escapes in GTA Online.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to get into any Job in GTA Online.
Fixed an issue in the Heist Humane Labs – Key Codes where players would be shown the alert “You can't access an apartment whilst you have a Mission objective” when trying to deliver the briefcase.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being shown 2 crates in their Warehouse after having only delivered 1.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the Annis RE-7B stock spoiler being listed as “None” in the mod shop instead of “Stock”.
Fixed an issue with the brake calipers of the Annis RE-7B that caused clipping when using custom wheel rim modifications.
Fixed an issue with the tires of the Annis RE-7B that rendered them with a low-resolution texture when the vehicle was dirty.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players experiencing constant frame rate drops when going On-Call for Stunt Races.
Fixed an issue with the Southern San Andreas Super Autos website that resulted in the “Sort by Price” option working incorrectly.
Fixed an issue with the Southern San Andreas Super Autos website where motorcycles from Cunning Stunts were not showing up in the “Motorcycles” category filter.
Fixed transaction issues when purchasing a tracker for vehicles.
Fixed an issue in Team GTA Races where players were unable to enter their teammates’ vehicles if their teammate left during a Race.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players’ saved racing outfits’ helmets to be overridden by the bike helmet option in the Interaction Menu.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players’ outfits in Stunt Races to be changed to their Freemode outfit on the celebration screen.
Fixed an issue that caused betting to be suppressed in Jobs with multiple rounds.
Fixed an issue that caused players in the highest DNF position to receive less RP than players who had finished after them in Premium Races.
Fixed issue that occurred in the Adversary Mode - Entourage where the target’s regeneration circle did not follow the target pad for spectating player.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to spectate players in the Adversary Mode - Entourage.
Fixed an issue that caused SecuroServ options to be missing from the Interaction Menu in the Adversary Mode - Entourage.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to join an existing lobby with spaces after they had created their own solo instance.
Fixed an issue in the Stunt Race - East Coast where the Stunt camera wouldn’t initiate when performing the Stunt jump.
Fixed some issues with the Stunt Race camera being difficult to control when driving through tube props or performing flips.
Fixed an issue that caused some dashboard dials in the Buckingham Luxor to not display accurate information.
Fixed an issue with the Obey Omnis that would cause the rev lights to be overly bright making it difficult to tell when they light up when accelerating.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players having no spoiler on their Obey Omnis despite having it chosen after quickly scrolling through the menu in the mod shop.
Fixed an issue that prevented the Obey Omnis from being picked up by the Cargobob helicopter.
Fixed an issue with spoilers on players’ custom Annis RE-7B, Emperor ETR1 and Obey Omnis.
Fixed an issue that meant if a player had gone over the RP cap on their last Stunt, the RP would then be removed from the player during their next Stunt.
Fixed issues where players would not receive the correct amount of RP bonus when performing Stunts during Stunt Races.
Fixed an issue that resulted in open face helmets changing to a different type when players removed them.
Fixed an issue where the accuracy of distant player blips would be incorrect and cause visual issues on the radar.
Fixed an issue that could cause the radar to render incorrectly during Stunt Races.
Fixed an issue that resulted in a news feed article for Valentine's Day incorrectly appearing when joining Freemode from a Stunt Race.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players receiving the message “Your Rank is too low” after going On Call and quitting from a Premium Race lobby.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players experiencing frame rate drops after calling in the Turreted Limo twice while onboard a Yacht located at LSIA.
Fixed an issue that caused the flag on the Galaxy Super Yacht to disappear when viewed at certain angles.
Fixed an issue that resulted in Crew best lap times being overwritten with personal lap times, even when the score doesn't beat the Crew best.
Fixed issues that resulted in players being unable to use their personal vehicle in Premium Races.
Fixed an issue in Stunt Races that would cause the radio station to change upon respawning.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players not spawning in their chosen location when entering GTA Online.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to purchase the Crew Emblem mod for the Vapid Contender.
Fixed an issue that resulted in Crew Emblems not being removed from clothing after changing Crew.
Fixed an issue that caused Crew Emblem Tattoos to not be cleared from players after they switched Crews.
Fixed an issue that resulted in large t-shirt Crew Emblems being removed after entering the character selector and returning back to Freemode.
Fixed an issue that caused Crew colors and Emblems on players’ Principe Nemesis motorcycles to not persist into a new session.
Fixed an issue that caused decals to appear corrupt on Stunt Suits when a player had a Crew Emblem equipped and entered a Stunt Race.
Fixed an issue that caused the Two Tone Tank Top to display Crew Emblems incorrectly.
Fixed an issue that caused the Diamond Back Stomach Tattoo to overlap with clothing items and Crew Emblems.
Fixed an issue that caused Crew Emblems to be removed inconsistently on players’ outfits after changing their Crew.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the 3x RP Icon appearing for Jobs in the pause menu when queuing for an active Premium Race.
Fixed an issue that caused remote players on motorcycles that were throwing projectile weapons to become out of sync.
Fixed some collision issues with the environment when riding the Western Company Gargoyle Motorcycle.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being spawned under the map after dying on their Western Gargoyle motorcycle.
Fixed an issue with the wheel axles of the Imponte Dukes being slightly off-center from the chassis.
Fixed an issue with the default spoiler of the Emperor ETR1 that caused it to detach when crashing the vehicle.
Fixed an issue that caused the exit / entry animation for Benny’s mod shop to not correctly play.
Fixed an issue that caused players to get stuck in the sky after joining a Friend from the pause menu.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players becoming invisible after passing out from drinking on the Yacht.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players being unable to stand up from the sofa after completing Prison Break – Finale.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players experiencing a constant "Transaction Pending" spinner after transferring a character.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players receiving no audio for the Benny's Original Motorworks Mod shop Tutorial.
Fixed an issue on the Stunt Race - Trench where the checkpoint was too close to a jump resulting in players flying over it repeatedly.
Fixed an issue that caused players to get stuck on a black screen when trying to play Flight School.
Fixed an issue that resulted in the "Friends in session" ticker feed message flashing between black and red.
Fixed an issue that resulted in players getting stuck loading into the Learn the Ropes Tutorial Mission after exiting the game, rebooting then re-joining Online.
Fixed an issue that caused players’ gamertags to be misaligned at the top of the Interaction Menu.
Fixed an issue that resulted in incorrect player names to display on the leaderboard during Playlists containing Stunt Races.
Fixed an issue that caused players’ speed to appear with an RP icon after it in the d-pad down leaderboard during the Freemode Challenge – Highest Speed.
Fixed an issue that resulted in an overlap on the Stunt Race leaderboard when players left then re-joined the Race.
Fixed an issue in the Stunt Race – Splits where certain alarms wouldn’t play during the second lap.
Fixed an issue that caused the Bike Helmet option to get changed to “None” after changing the option, adjusting the visor option then closing the Interaction Menu.
Fixed an issue that caused players’ visor option to not retain their up / down choice.
Fixed clipping issues when wearing certain hats inside the Lampadati Tropos Rallye.
Fixed an issue with players’ helmets spinning when being equipped after changing visor.
Fixed an issue that caused the Stunt Race flag filter to appear in other lobbies.
Fixed an issue that resulted in spectators experiencing overlapping UI during vehicle selection screens.

 

E QUI l'elenco di tutte le patch rilasciate.

Mi ripeto: evviva le patch.
Non ci sono sviluppatori cattivi. E' principalmente una questione di grano. Poi gli squali ci stanno, ma quello e' un altro discorso.

P.S.: per la cronaca ho dovuto tagliare l'elenco dei fix, perché il post superava i 20k caratteri...E questi sono solo dell'ultima patch.
Ripeto..da Vice City a GTA 5 sono 2 universi diversi

[babaz]

Vabbé ma le patch di GTA5 aggiungevano roba, non è che fixavano bug che rompevano il gioco.
Più che patch erano DLC gratuiti,

Non si capiva?
E cmq di bug fixati ce ne sono stati tanti anche su GTA V ... Non potrebbe essere altrimenti per un gioco così enorme.

[MaxxLegend]

Ho scritto apposta "non è che fixavano bug che rompevano il gioco".
Si tratta di bugfix minori, il gioco va alla grande anche senza patch. Il senso era questo.

Uno sviluppatore può passare l'eternità a modificare questo o quel dettaglio senza che ce ne sia effettivo bisogno, basti vedere certi che "patchano" il gioco addirittura trasformandolo o rovinandolo. 

[Account_191220]

Quanti giochi rotti sono stati fixati da una patch nell'epoca PS-ONE?
L'ho già chiesto ma nessuno ha risposto.

[Freshlem]

Maxx ti voglio bene, ma non girare la frittata.

(Che poi...siamo OT?)
 Io do ragione a Kabuto sulle patch e tu mi rispondi, in breve, che tra Vice city e GTA 5 non c'è molta differenza. Ti rispondo e ti faccio pure notare la miriade di fix che a 3 anni di distanza continuano a essere rilasciate (certo non nego i contenuti extra che sono una tonnellata).  Mi dici "si, ma...bug rilevanti. Si può fare"

E io ti dico no. Ci vogliono i soldi. Tanti soldi. Rockstar e pochi altri possono farlo.
La mole di lavoro é immensa. Ti chiedo...hai mai fatto QA?
E tornando al succo..grazie a Dio che esistono le patch.
Kabuto, per quanto genovese, ha ragione.

[MaxxLegend]

Quanto giochi rotti sono stati fixati da una patch nell'epoca PS-ONE?
L'ho già chiesto ma nessuno ha risposto.

Che io sappia nessun gioco PsOne è impossibile da finire o crasha. Ma pure Ps2, vah!
Poi che il gameplay in certi casi possa essere marcio è un altra questione, e lì generalmente non c'è fix che tenga.

[Andrea_23]

Maxx ti voglio bene, ma non girare la frittata.

(Che poi...siamo OT?)
 Io do ragione a Kabuto sulle patch e tu mi rispondi, in breve, che tra Vice city e GTA 5 non c'è molta differenza. Ti rispondo e ti faccio pure notare la miriade di fix che a 3 anni di distanza continuano a essere rilasciate (certo non nego i contenuti extra che sono una tonnellata).  Mi dici "si, ma...bug rilevanti. Si può fare"

E io ti dico no. Ci vogliono i soldi. Tanti soldi. Rockstar e pochi altri possono farlo.
La mole di lavoro é immensa. Ti chiedo...hai mai fatto QA?
E tornando al succo..grazie a Dio che esistono le patch.
Kabuto, per quanto genovese, ha ragione.

Non è questione di soldi.
È questione di come li usi.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop

Il punto è che R* spende quanto serve per riuscire a raggiungere un certo obiettivo specifico (evolvere tecnologicamente il gioco, col cazzo che III e V sono lì-lì). Altri, semplicemente, scendono a compromessi per rispettare i limiti di tempo o budget.

Tutto qua.